Embracing Your True Self: The Journey Through Non-Monogamy, Jealousy, and Sacred Rage with Sandra Possing EP. 66

If you're feeling suffocated by societal expectations and constantly striving to fit in, then you are not alone! You may already be sacrificing your true self in order to please others, only to find that it's still not enough. You may be experiencing a constant sense of dissatisfaction, despite following the rules and norms that society has set for you. It's time to break free from the cycle of conformity and embrace your unique identity, because the result you're seeking is not found in conformity.

My guest, Sandra Possing, is an advocate for living authentically and embracing non-conformity and the host of the podcast "Oh Hi, Self". With a wealth of personal experience, Sandra has dedicated her life to helping others break free from societal expectations and live on their own terms. Her mission is to empower individuals to create relationships and lifestyles that align with their true selves. Through her open and honest approach, she aims to normalize unconventional relationship dynamics and inspire others to explore beyond traditional boundaries. Sandra's candid and relatable insights make her a valuable voice in the journey towards authenticity and self-discovery.

In this episode, we talk about:

• Embracing Non-Monogamy 

• Living Unconventionally 

• Normalizing Open Relationships 

• Radical Honesty and Boundaries 

• Embracing Change and Permission to Explore 

• Surprising Challenges: Dealing with Jealousy 

• Navigating Jealousy and Self-Judgment  

• Unleashing Inner Feminine Power 

• Honoring Emotions 

• Cathartic Movement and Communication 

• Unique Path in Sexuality 

• Embracing Authenticity and Self-Exploration 

• Relaxing into Who You Are 

• Embracing Wholeness and Inner Peace 

• Permission to Explore and Embrace Unconventional Paths
  

Want to Connect with Sandra?

• www.sandrapossing.com

Do you feel like you could use some help with your relationships? 
Get on a free call with Ellecia to see how she can help you  move through the challenges of jealousy, fear, anxiety, and insecurities in a way that strengthens your relationships, deepens your trust, and communication, and leaves you feeling confident.

https://elleciapaine.podia.com/clarity-chat

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Credits
- Host/Producer: Ellecia Paine
- Editor/Producer: Danny Walters
- Hosted on Buzzsprout

Transcript:

hey I'm Ellecia, your non- monogamous relationship coach welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat

about our relationships enthusiastic non- monogamy polyamory swinging Kink

and our lives you'll get a candid Peak into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box and in case you're still

wondering nope we're not [Music]

monogamous hey hey hey dive into the world of

authenticity with my latest guest Sandra posin she's the host of the podcast oh

high self and this is a really fun conversation we delve deep into embracing non-conformity navigating the

complexities of non- monogamy and the liberating journey of self-expression this episode is more than just a

conversation it's an invitation to a transformative Journey towards embracing your true self we explore the impact of

living authentically overcoming the fear of judgment and finding freedom in

self-expression Sandra's insights on the erotic blueprint quiz reveal how understanding your unique sexual

identities can profoundly affect our relationships and self-awareness so join us for this empowering conversation and

let it be your Catalyst for embracing your unique identity and if this episode inspires you consider supporting our

journey on patreon your support enables us to continue creating content that empowers and enlightens you can find

that at uh patreon.com monogamous and don't forget to subscribe and leave a

review for nope we're not monogamous your feedback helps us grow and reach more and more people who are eager to

embrace their true selves enjoy it's always hard sometime not

always sometimes hard to find hard cool awesome uh well I'm excited

you're here thank you for coming on I'm excited to be here yay okay so I want to

start I always start by asking people um because it's nope we're not monogamous

is what is your uh experience with non- monogamy or what is your relationship

style or how do how do you how do you love it's a great question and it's a um

I would say it's a moving Target and it's an evolving situation like in real time as we speak right now um and it

it's one that um it feels more aligned now in my current status in my current

partnership than it ever has before I kind of feel like all of the past parts of my um relationship history it's like

everything's coming together in the in a really beautiful way but so so long story short or just current status wise

um I'm married to my husband Chris we've been together for like 11 12 years um

married for like seven coming up on eight um I would if I had to put a label

on us I would say um I would also say nope we're not monogamous but I would

say that we are somewhere in between um monogamish which I do love that phrase

and and like open is um and the ish has to do depend with on just so much on the

situation the person um the agreements the boundaries all of which are very

like Case by case and like it's an evolving thing because this is kind of it we are in a new chapter of our lives

right now I would say um but it certain phrases we were talking about this the

other day because I was like by the way I'm doing this podcast and um is there anything that's off the table I should

mention since you know it involves you as well um and we were both kind of saying we don't there are certain words

we don't really like personally resonate with like when somebody says oh I'm polyamorous I'm like I guess technically

we would kind of maybe fit into that category but like it also doesn't feel like I wouldn't say that I'm polyamorous

but I would say that I'm in a somewhat open relationship that has a lot of just

um like guard rails on it and a lot of honesty and a lot of conversation and a lot of debriefing and a lot of constant

check-ins because it's a new it's new territory is kind of how's that for

how's that for a vague non-answer no it's an excellent answer you know why I love it is because um

that's super relatable for so many people right like like as humans we really want defined boxes and we want

clear lines and yet most of us don't fit in those defined boxes and we like to

color outside of those lines so and so much of my like so much of my

whole my my whole mission in life my why my business my personal just Mission and

not even professionally has to do with like me living my own extraord orinary

life unconventionally like you know bucking any any and all societal conditioning and and expectations that

don't feel right for me and then helping others do the same so like with a lot of my clients I'm all about helping them find like unconventional sex you're not

unconventional sex also but also that also that I meant to say unconventional success um perfect prudian slip for this

podcast but but also in like you know living your life on your terms authenticity alignment d d da and so much of that has to do with like daring

to not conform to our societ standards and so um getting to play more

in the space and um think about it in more in the context of relationships is just it's it just so aligned with my

whole feel like that I'm all about my whole brand everything so um yeah yeah

yeah uh one of the things that you had said and I love this that your whole message in business are about creating

life on your terms which um I love love love because that's what I always tell people about relationships like create

relationships that work for the people in the relationships instead of for the people that are on the outside looking

in and telling you what you should be doing yeah and yet we are so conditioned to care so goddamn much about what

everybody else is thinking and the thought of like oh my God but what would my parents think and what would the people I grew up with who I don't even

talk to anymore you know but but the or my parents friend or like any of and it's like none of that matters but and

yet we're so terrified to you know cross any of those boundaries or not fit

perfectly into the box of the label oh yes I always love thinking about like what what if you know these people find out

and and when I like really logically think about it I'm like oh they're going to show up and like send me some

Facebook messages for a couple of weeks and then I won't hear from them again from them again in another for another

couple of years that's what will happen actually they'll be like like in shock and a and

then they'll get over it and move on with their day and life goes on or like I've had um I've been just so just a

little like glimpse into the the past couple months I've been way more open about our current relationship status

and just way more open about my sexuality in general and like even though I've been kind of open about that

for I don't know 20 years but I've just I think I've been more bold and Unapologetic and whatever just a little more in yourf face about it on social

media which is feels so good there's so much liberation on the other side of of not caring as much what people think and

daring to put it out there and some of the little messages I've gotten from people are like I haven't gotten I

haven't got any haters about this specifically I'm sure some people are sitting quietly on the side and judging me but that's fine but the messages that

I get were like one person I'm thinking about she reached out and she was like thank you so much for talking about this

so openly and for normalizing some of these things she's like you know I'm in a situ I won't say her personal

situation here but she was like I'm in XYZ situation and I could never tell

this family member about it and you know I live in a small town and I could never like let any of them find out but so

thank you for normalizing it so I can see that like there are people who do these types you know like such a big

example but those little messages are the ones that make it feel so worthwhile to be more open about it and share about

it and have these conversations and like that's part of what drew me to be here I'm just like let's just talk about it

talk about all of it yeah that's exactly it right because like it feels because nobody's talking

about it it feels really isolating and there's like three of us and uh the reality is that like the more open

People Like Us who who have the privilege of being able to be open um are able to talk about it the the more

it one becomes normalized but two people don't feel alone they're like oh that's

that's what's going on okay I'm not too weird and it opens people up to the

possibility that there may be more for them where maybe they haven't you know maybe there's like on some subconscious

level they're curious about something outside of the traditional bounds of you know like a very heteronormative

traditional marriage relationship or something but then seeing other examples of it they're like oh wait a minute had

hadn't even crossed my mind like can I do that you can do that you know like right and then to be somebody who can U

model that for people or like if I can Inspire one person to even just question it and and possibly honor a leaning that

they have that's really authentic to them then it's also worthwhile yeah yeah

totally totally okay I want to ask you

um why'd you guys open up so when we

first technically and I was laughing about this the other day I'm like we've technically been open since day one but

it took us like eight or nine years to ever act on it because we were just so obsessed with each other from the

beginning like our when we got together and first started dating and recording each other it was just this wild like

it's this dramatic love story but um there was so much magnetic attraction between us and part of that was you know

all just being very honest with each other and um you know I was very honest about kind of my past and being very

bisexual and having you know a little bit of a [ __ ] past also and just being

like yes and you know and I just remember him being like like I'm happy to share you and I should introduce you

to this friend of mine you would love him you know just little things like that and so it was kind of like we just had this unspoken agreement right off

the bat and then also more more explicit like um or not explicit more like uh

yeah just stated verbal agreements too from the beginning that like hey this could be open but then it's almost as if we both kind of forgot about it because

we were just so into each other um and then we're like happy on our way and we check in every now and then there was always a talk of you know what if we

kind of like pursued something more intentionally but we were always both like you know I don't know if kind of

like if the some gal just like shows up and falls into our lap then we can honor that and explore it and whatever but it

was kind of like you know the the Unicorn or the gal just never really showed up and so right and neither one

of us really had the bandwidth or the desire to go out um like hunting you know for someone I was in a previous

relationship a long time ago that was very much open and um I didn't have the

bandwidth to go find a third but he was happy to do the hunting so he would like literally go like find people and then

show them to me and I would basically give a thumbs up or thumbs down and then he would communicate with them and like bring them they're all Scouts but bring

them into the situation and I was like this is very convenient like I'm just going to give you a yes or a no and so it got you know it was a chance for me

to honor my attraction to women and stuff but I didn't have to make a whole it was just it was almost like a very

like just fun transactional kind of thing yeah um there was no real emotional attachments or relationship

stuff in there yeah but then yeah then and then now with Chris it was you know it was just always like well just if it

happens it happens um but it wasn't really until the last couple years when things just sort of like organically

happened like we have a really awesome friend group and you know we just have like fun wild dance parties and then

that would lead to you usually just like me starting to make out with friend you

know just in a really play playful way like platonic fun flirty like nothing serious um

and yeah and then that just kind of led to more conversations about it and then just opportunities kind of showed up

yeah and then that's how and then as the opportunities showed up and they were more than just you know a little playful thing here and there then we got to

basically the opportunity to start talking more um more intentionally about like what does this mean and what are

you comfort with and what are you comfortable with and what you what's off the table and what are we not allowed to do and um you know we've had a very

strong emphasis on boundaries and communication and consent and um just like radical honesty which has been huge

for this whole chapter that's amazing I love that it's such a um I love hearing

about people who start with a very um

open you know clear communication just being really transparent with each other because it's just it it it it you it

sets a foundation for for so many good experiences yeah yeah yeah cool and the

more that I it's just I find the more we sit and like talk I mean sometimes we've ended up having these like three hour

long debriefs about just trying to figure out like you know it's like you ask the other person what they're comfortable with and they're like

literally trying to figure it out as I'm speaking right now because I don't know because I hav thought about it before or I haven't been you know haven't

entertained this possibility before so it's like as little developments were happening we like debriefing it in real

time to figure out and you know like one of my um I'm all over the place but one of my kind of mantras in life right now

which I stole from a mentor of mine is that I'm allowed to change my mind about anything or anyone at any time and so I

and I feel very strongly about that and I feel very strongly about that in the context of something like an open

relationship where you're like yeah yeah no I'm totally I'm totally fine with that go do your thing and the next day

you're like just kidding changed my mind I I thought I was comfortable with that but now that I'm really sitting with it

I'm realizing I'm not and then not like it's off the table forever but then having the opportunity to like sit down

and and debrief it then and be like what is it about this whatever permission that you gave and then took back like

what is it about that that feels threatening and then that leads to all sorts of amazing conversations about what we each actually really need and

like unspoken desires or unspoken just like I need to feel this way or safety or whatever it might be um so it's like

each one of those little like wrinkles where we've had to them be like wait a minute but I thought but and it's like

it's actually just as cool because it's an opportunity to connect more deeply and trust each other more and like we've

had some of the most insane conversations in the last six months that we and and we're really close like

our friends see us as people who just have this amazing communication and connection but like it has it has gone

much deeper into totally Uncharted Territory feelings have come up that I didn't know

even existed anywhere in my body and uh it's been just a really neat journey and

I feel closer to him now than I ever have like thanks to a lot of those really weird wrinkles being like we're

like we're all changing our mind at the same time but just flowing with it yeah yeah gosh I love that so much I love um

that you can always change your mind I think everybody needs to know that like about all the things right like even in

the middle of sex you can change your mind totally you can stop like I see that with you know

clients who are working on whatever health or careers or relationships or even like a new hobby you know they're

so afraid that like what if I change careers and then I hate it and then I'm like then you can change it again or if

somebody's like you like I've randomly had all these women recently clients of mine who who are super passionate about

flower arranging I was like I why am I attracting people into flower ranging that's awesome but um but then they're like you know they want to put all this

time in energy into it but then they're like but then what if I don't like it and I'm like then you can go do something else you know it's like full

permission you are not locked into this whatever thing that you decided on you can change your mind in the middle of it like you said in the middle of sex in

the middle of something you thought was going to be amazing and then you're like nope yeah in the middle of making a

flower arrangement you can be like I don't like this one anymore and toss it

out which is just very freeing yeah yeah

that's so good oh I love that what um I'm curious are there any

um are there any like challenges that have come up that have surprised

you yes um the one that surprised me the

most was my own jealousy um I I don't really know how to

explain it but I feel like I haven't um experienced sounds dumb to say but I'm

like I feel like I hadn't actually really ever experienced jealousy before like ever in you know

about other not about relationships so I've been jealous you know I'm an entrepreneur so I've been jealous of

another female entrepreneurs coaching business that I felt like was growing faster than mine or something like that

or somebody's branding is cooler or you know um one thing I used to get really jealous about is people's hair like I

have a whole thing around my hair and so one of my good friends has the most amazing thick blonde straight hair and

my hair is like fine and kind of wavy and um I used to get really triggered by

how great her you know it's like little things like that and then I worked through that and I was like that's a great opportunity just to celebrate

other people's whatever but the but in with relationships like I don't know if it's just the nature of all my past relationships I just always felt like

really secure and I wasn't worried about really any part of it um and up until

recently in my marriage I just just like hadn't you know I trust him so completely and I feel so solid in our

relationship and our in our communication that just jealousy wasn't a thing and like I'm very openly

bisexual and we very openly like both will will you know talk about like people that we think are attractive and

like I wasn't threatened by him looking at other women because I would look at them too and be like I love that for you not my not not my type I'd be like I

like you know what this type in said um but then in a most like our most kind of recent iteration it's it it's me dating

someone who then he also has a connection to and then it was me getting

jealous of their connection yeah which intellectually I'm like I love that for

him that he's connected to her I love that for her that she's connected to him I love that for me that they're connected that's great it's all just

win-win all around but then there's this part of me that was like this

bratty um really possessive weird toddler devil lady that came out my

being and I was literally like who the actual [ __ ] is this monster I have never met her before and I don't like her at

all um and the interesting I mean from the outside one might think like oh you're you're jealous of her like you're

jealous of this other woman who's like you know has some connection to your partner and I was like no no no I'm

jealous of my partner because I don't like that he gets to have any connection with her

because I want it to myself MH like how does that I mean first of all she has

her own partner like I'm not too sh I don't own her you know like I don't get to and so I was like what is this weird

dynamic that is like happen and that was just so it's still something I'm kind of unpacking I'm like how did that and it

we had all these amazing talks about it and like debrief and um yeah anyway it's

that's like so many layers there but the it just totally took me by surprise and then it was really triggering because I

didn't like that version of myself and I know that's something the jealousy thing is something you talk about a lot in your work so your perspective cuz I was

just like I don't like this jealous ass [ __ ] that's coming out right now like make her go away but then I couldn't

ignore it so I was like I have to feel these feelings but then in in in honoring that and letting myself feel

the feelings I was like I just need to be like a little brat right now I need to have a t like a toddler level tantrum

and basically was like that's my toy don't touch my toy it's mine but then the grownup part of me is like we share

here we we share our toys toys are meant to be shared everyone like it's lovely like intellectually I was like yes but

my whole body was just like don't touch my toys she's m you know so it was really weird and I was very open about

it with him with her and with everyone um but I just it was a really interesting thing to navigate and it I

felt a lot of um self-judgment around I was like this version of me just

literally make her go away because she's grossed she's mean she's stupid this is not what I'm about um and I felt a allot

of Shame around it too I was like where is this coming from this is not okay and then um luckily Chris and I are like we

do such a good job debriefing things and we'll just sit and like dig and dig and dig and he's really amazing at like

holding space and asking me questions and like he will challenge me on things for sure and he will stand up for

himself but he also can just he knows me so well he knows my triggers he knows my loaning beliefs he knows all my like hurt little girl stuff and so he can

just sit there and like help me process while I'm just like you know um and then

a lot of it came down to just like trust yeah like trusting everyone involved and

also being like like something about attachment and letting go and like not

needing to control things which like to another parallel with clients I see so much of what people bump up against is

their need to like predict and control everything like I need to control my life and I'm like you can't yeah and the

more you surrender and let go the more free and empowered you'll feel and then you trust yourself and you trust the universe and whatever um and so in this

situation I was like I need to let go of trying to control the situation because I don't want to control it anyway anyway

but part of me was like I like needed to be like peering around every corner and monitoring and I was like ew don't do

that and so the more that I've just been like I trust myself trust him trust her trust Universe I trust us all to figure

it out um the better it's felt in my body and the more

I can just like relax and roll with the punches and be curious and excited and like see what unfolds yes yes yes yes oh

gosh I love that there's God there's so many good things so many good nuggets get in there um I love the piece about control and

like so that is I would say probably the number one thing that people come to me and they're like like really like what

is they want to know what is going to happen what if you know all of what if these multiple series of events happen

and then my life is in Ruins and I'm like well then they do

like like there's only so much you can have control over besides yourself um

yeah jealousy is it's one of those things that whenever people tell me that they are H like aren't jealous or not

very jealous or I've never experienced jealousy and I'm like you just haven't had anything happen that triggered the

jealousy that's all which is great such a normal human emotion too right like we

all have the capacity for that and it's a very yeah normal part of our Human

Experience yes totally I loved I loved your description of like the toddler with the blocks because I that's I say

that all the time I'm like we're we're a bunch of giant toddlers just running around make sure you've had enough to eat and you've had enough to sleep and

that you know you don't maybe you need some like cuddles like you know like

basic human needs to soothe the toddler who's getting upset about the blocks being

shared because it is we we're we all have that in US totally yeah yeah I've

always been very jealous which I think is helpful for me because I'm I have a lot of resilience in it I've had a lot

of practice with being jealous and like moving through it without blowing things up so I imagine it's really really hard

if it's something that you have not experienced much it's a big

feeling it's a very uncomfortable one yeah yeah yeah and comes with all those

things like shame and judgment and like because culturally you know when people

are jealous in MO you know in monogamous relationships we just we make two assumptions either it's because someone

has harmed you or because you're crazy like right like

either there's something wrong with you and you shouldn't feel jealous or someone has done something wrong which

makes your jealous valid but outside of those two things we don't have any like

any experience with just just being jealous and being being okay now that

I've um and not saying it won't ever come up again because I I suspect it will but it's so cool like if I look

back at the last last kind of six months or whatever it's been there was there have been like chapters in this chapter

and um while I wouldn't have you know wished for the jealousy chapter had I especially had I known

like how intense it was going to feel for me I'm so grateful that it happened you know it's like the first chapter in this thing was like kind of a honeymoon

phase where I was just like I would say the last even though I've been like very out um and

like open about being bisexual I haven't like been as vocal about it and I've felt more of a kind of a almost like a

responsibility to the LGBT community the last couple years of being like I have so much privilege like to compar to a

lot of people in the community that don't where it's like literally not safe for their survival to say anything about

their identity and I'm like I'm kind of over here in my little you know castle like I can get away with a lot of things

I'm like I need to speak up I need to be vocal I need to take a stand and all of that and so I've been trying to just

like be more bold be Unapologetic and stuff but the um it's one thing to just like talk about it conceptually and be

like Yay pride and here's my coming out story and d d d but then being able to like you know post photos on a date with

a girlfriend like that has felt very um not just like I'm I'm showing up in a way that feels really important to take

a stand and um but then it's been really interesting for me just like personally

the kind of um what's the word I'm looking for just like the empowerment like yeah I'm big on like you know

unleashing our inner badass and for me as a like a strong female but one who's

maybe been less in touch with my feminine side it's been really important to like unleash my more like feminine and all of that and so it's like wild

woman side of me like the side that wants to just like run around naked in the woods and hell at the moon like all the witchy [ __ ] really honor I've been

like you know the fit like the gy bro and like the entrepreneur who's hustling like I want to honor that really witchy feminine side and so this year a big

part of it has been even just a couple years ago when we're you know having these dance parties and like running around our underwear outside our

friend's house and making out with friends like all of that has felt like this part of this unleashing and this like I feel more kind of um empowered in

my own like feminine embodiment and just empowered in myself as an individual and as a human but also empowered sexually

and sensually and like self-expression and all of that has really escalated and then this summer I just reached this

point where I was like just exploding at the seams like I felt so confident and

like magnetic and just things were really happening in my business and my life and relationships and community and like I was just like w um but was also

kind of the honeymoon phase before we bumped into any of the like jealousy and like you know was just kind of yeah this

like little dating honeymoon situation and then it got into like oh there's more you know there's other people's emotions evolved and there's more

complicated conversations to be had here about boundaries and things and then it then I hit like the jealousy phase which

um a lot of other fun things were still going on but it was like I just went deep into this Rabbit Hole of like I'm just feeling like this angry toddler all

the time yeah and so while that was a painful couple of weeks or month or whatever it was maybe six weeks

I look back at it now and I'm like thank God that happened because now I I've worked through it and I feel so much

more depth in in my own understanding so much more depth in my connection and my intimacy with my husband and and like

and connection to her and like just I don't know just the whole situation I just feel so much more at peace and I

like I've learned how to surrender this need to control and predict in this particular situation but also I feel

like I can I have a better sense of how to apply that to other areas too of like surrender and trust

and be present and do all the things and and communicate but not need to like White Knuckle it and be like I need

these people to act this way for me to be okay you know right yeah yeah yeah um

and it it's always interesting because when you're in the middle of that like like when you're in that shadow it it

feels like that this is probably never going to end this is I there's no there's no ending this

unless everything stops but that's not what I want yeah yeah it's been very helpful to

remind myself because I you know support so many other people going through their big emotions but I hadn't like and Chris

is always really good at supporting me through mine but mine are usually related to totally other things so to be

in my own emotions like this and and remind myself like this is temporary and

the really the only way through is to go through it you can't just like take a little walk around the perimeter like you can't intellectualize it you can't

just like sit and analyze it like you have to just feel these feelings but in a in a safe

container and with trust and processing and do and like do all the you know embodiment things I did a lot of crying a lot of yelling a lot of like moving my

body and moving the energy and it it feels like a huge gift now and I'm

thankful to all the parties involved for their willingness to like witness me

going through it like I was going through my own more intense version of anything that anybody else involved was feeling I think um and yeah I'm just

really glad now and I feel like uh like a resilient [ __ ] at this point I'm like kind of feel like I can handle

anything right right now until the next thing until the next

thing and then I when I get back to tantrum toddler stage um then I will go find support for that it'll probably be

Chris as usual what uh I'm curious what would you

say was like it like if you had to pick one tool that you found most helpful

what would it be um if I chose I can narrow it down to

two I would say number one just uh giving myself permission to feel my feelings and to like experiment with

feeling them in different ways um you know I think I have kind of

corresponding emotional outlets for depending on the type of emotion like I'm really good at feeling I'm I'm a

sensitive empath HSP Moody person I always have been and so I've always been

good at like um sad I'm really good at sad I know how to do sad I can I'm a

great crier I cry very easily I know how to have people hold me and support me I

know how to do a ugly ass cry in the shower um that's easy so like that was a go-to anytime I felt more like a blue

kind of sad but then um anger is not an emotion that I've typically had a lot of

access to I think just based on what was modeled for me and stuff like examples of anger that I saw was like no I that

is not I don't that's not I don't want to do that or um any version of anger that was coming out of me I was like

this is embarrassing I don't like how it looks I would always stuff that down I think or I just like didn't know how to make it come out in it I like I don't

raise my voice I don't yell I don't like punch wall you know and so but then I experienced um some anger this time that

I was like oh okay this is this is coming out one way or another so I may as well like do it in a healthy way and

it was the first not the first time but first time in a long time that I felt what felt like rage but now I know a lot

more about that emotion at least intellectually so I was like um this is we're we're going to do this in a very feminine way we're going to do this in a

very like sacred witchy ritualistic way and so I would say I did my best it wasn't it was not always pretty not that

rage should be rage should not be pretty but I did a lot of like looking at it as like the ritual of honoring sacred Rage

which like I can feel anger resentment rage judgment whatever at this particular thing that I'm being

triggered by and like I'm going to release rage from like my generational

ancestral trauma from the wit whatever you know I was like let let me it

reminded me of um is in Costa Rica with Chris a couple years ago doing a plant ceremony for multiple days and I

remember some of I was crying a lot during those times and I remember at one point like laying there and crying and

like hearing other people you know making all the weird sounds that people make when they're having a plant ceremony um wailing and and screaming

and all this kind of stuff and I remember at one point being like like thanking the whole room for releasing

like hent up anger and grief and rage for the collective so I think I was doing a little bit of that during this

chapter I'm like you know some of it's like Primal screaming in the car some of it's like punching pillows like all safe

places where I'm not going to actually really hurt myself or anyone else um but it I like the idea of of using it not as

something that's like oh my God I'm embarrassed I should just I shouldn't feel this way uh which I did in the beginning but then I worked through that

and it's just been like this is okay to release and I actually it needs to come up so that it can come out so I can work

through it and the more I release it but like in an intentional way in like a safe place with a safe container and

then I'm able to not only move the energy but then also go process it and like talk about it or Journal about it

or whatever it is to kind of integrate so it's not just like rage and then nothing you know like rage and then go

pretend you're fine but like it was like rage and then and honor that and be like this this is a sacred emotion that as

women we are often discouraged and conditioned to not be allowed to feel because it it can look a little

intimidating can look scary it looks messy it's not graceful you know so it it's like so the the tool to Circle back

it was like allowing myself to feel sad and cry allowing myself to feel anger and rage and let it out and um and just

making sure I was moving my body you know like I think it's so tempting to really intellectualize our emotions but

based on everything I know like we need to our emotions live in our bodies not in our brains like we need to move so a

lot of walking and moving ideally I would be dancing but I didn't dance as much as I maybe would want want to um

and then the other tool is just the like the debriefing the communication with multiple people but mostly with my

husband and I mean a crucial part of it was his willingness to like sit and you

know there were nights it would be 10 pm we'd be like okay good night and the one of us would be like we'd say one thing

and I'd be like oh [ __ ] here we go you know something you

just said just triggered me and then like our connection would break and we're both very committed to not going

to bed angry you know so then we'd be like okay let's talk 3 hours later at 1:00 a.m. we're be like oh my God we're

going to be so tired tomorrow but it just the willingness to just debrief and like deconstruct and process and be like

you know just keep like our thing is we just keep talking about it until we feel the connection come back yeah yeah yeah

yeah yeah I love that that's so good uh I love the cathartic movement that was one of my big tools as well is is like I

would go lock my bedroom door and turn music up really loud and shake and

breathe and scream and punch pillows and uh jump on the bed and like just just

move right like let the tears come out and all of that like it's so so so important and I don't think people do

enough of that just in general let alone when yeah they're when it when they're

feeling in crisis yeah yeah it's such medicine yeah

yeah it really is it really is it's amazing if

you I probably know the answer to this but if you had the chance to go back and do things differently is there anything

you would change o

um like in this particular chapter of or like in my full

Journey full Journey full journey I would

probably fly my freak flag higher and be way more vocal much

earlier yeah yeah I think I when I reflect on my whole like if I say my if

my journey I probably knew that I wasn't straight like as a kid but I don't think I just didn't have

the the the vocabulary or like the context to really put that into I just

knew it wasn't something that like people talked about as a kid in the 80s you know there was like some vague idea idea of like gay people but I was like

that's also not me but like whatever I am is not whatever this other thing is that everybody seems to be so it's just kind of like something I didn't really

think about until college and then there were many opportunities and things all around me that were like this is a thing

and I was like oh I think I might be that thing um but not the gay one the like the one that's both H you know what

is this what is this thing you know now maybe I would call it probably my most

accurate description would be pansexual but that wasn't like people weren't even using that word and nobody was really

talking using the word queer back then too it was like you're straight you're gay or you're bisexual those were the options that was that I was aware of and

so so if we say my kind of Journey was started around 20 I'm 43 now so the last 20 years so half my life um I when I

think back to the different chapters I I love to look at everything as chapters and oftentimes the chapters are like when I lived a certain place or when I

was dating a certain person or whatever it was yeah I feel like I can look back and I was the most confident empowered

um Wild free two of my most desired emotions are feeling Wild and Free so I

look back at the chapters where I felt Wild and Free and a lot of that had to do with how self-expressed was I or how

how uninhibited and like liberated was I allowing myself to show up in my fullness my full identity and I look

back at certain certain relationships I was in where you know they maybe knew about that part of me but they were not

interested in supporting it and they were very committed to their idea of like this is this is our little you know what's appropriate for my family and our

friend group and our social life and stuff so I would just kind of take that part of me and like I wouldn't flip off the switch completely but I would like

turn the dial way down yeah you know yeah and I wasn't certainly wasn't like walking around talking about it or

rainbow flagging it anywhere I was just like trying to fit in but I look back at the periods where I was more loud about

it and that's when I felt most Wild and Free and happy and empowered and it feels really good to be even though like

technically you know have been open and have been out and whatever for a long time just these last couple years and

the way that my partnership with Chris has evolved has felt so immensely liberating and it's it's part of my wish

for everybody like I want everyone to feel Wild and Free or whatever their version of that is um

and yeah so I think the only thing I would change is is do more of that sooner and turn up the dial and the the

times when I was like kind of hiding it or just turning down the dial I would go back and challenge that version of myself to be like what would happen if

you just crank the dial all the way up and you might you know some people might push back but maybe they're not your

people as As Time Has Told right you can look back and be like

no really you should have that's amazing I love that that's

so good that's fun uh mine are mine are uh easy and free

so I just want things to be easy and fun and like just feel really free so I love

that uh um it's so relatable it's so relatable I remember remember I was when

I was in high school I knew I was by and then um had a couple of experiences and then you know then jealousy was so

intense that I spent all of my 20s going nope I'm straight and I don't

share and then I got divorced at 35 and I was like I'm straight and I don't share but I don't want to be monogamous

and I want to be a big [ __ ] and then I met my husband a couple months my second husband a couple months later and he was

like I'm polyamorous and I was like I'm straight and I don't share and and then we had a threesome with a friend of mine

and I was like oh I'm not straight and I do [Laughter]

share yeah and then your whole Paradigm of existence that you're totally

committed to you're like well [ __ ] okay I'm GNA need to reevaluate and there is

a different way there's a different way and and the different way also doesn't need to look like any specific thing

like we so get to choose our own unique path in with in that P like I think a

lot of U someone like me who's like you know um I don't know I'd say somewhere

living it like somewhere in between if if two ends of the spectrum are like the super straight traditional whatever heteronormative kind of world and then

like the super everything that's alternative super poly all of that side of it like I don't there's a lot of that

side of the spectrum that just doesn't resonate doesn't feel sure um like I can't really again like I was saying the word polymerous even doesn't doesn't

really feel like me and I don't know that you know either one of us would be interested even in a relationship we like we're both dating multiple people

and it's this whole like wild like that that whereas like somewhere in the middle for me feels really right at

least for now and the idea that like like if I if I was choosing between one

or the other I would be so sad because neither one of those worlds feels at all right for me and I would feel like I was

giving up a bunch and sacrificing a and trying to do something that also I'm not you know so it's like being somewhere in

the middle of the road and being able to design my unique path and really honor all parts of

my sexuality my identity like and my partnership and we get to design our partnership and exactly how that works

and it's allowed to change and it's allowed to evolve and then like we get to try things and experiment and see what fits and see what you know there's

a lot of things that like rationally or logically or or hypothetically you're like oh yeah that sounds great and then

you go explore and you're like actually no no at least not now it's a it's a not

yet or it's a not now um and I might change my mind about that tomorrow or next year it's just so I don't know it's

so freeing to give ourselves permission I think to be able to just tune in and like be really

unapologetically authentic even if what's real for us is changing and evolving yes yes yes absolutely 100

per. I love that um is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would

want to share with the listeners

o I feel like I want there to be something so I'm uh I'm searching in yeah in the corners of my psyche right

now I I guess it's more of um I'm trying to think if I have like a personal example like the thing that I wish more

people knew or like what I want for people is this this internal state where

where and I'm not saying I live this way all the time but like the feeling that I sometimes feel and I wish I could feel

all the time is this feeling of like um really relaxing into who you are there's

a quote this think it's like a um a Chinese proverb or something and it's tension is who you think you are

relaxation is who you are and it's that relaxation part of that where you're just you you know and it takes a lot of

work and usually a lot of years of deconditioning and recognizing what are the things that I'm being or what are

the things I'm doing that I'm doing or being because it's what I think I should be or it's just what what was modeled for me like literally never occurred to

me to not be or do that thing but then the more that we can just kind of remove

the like peel back those layers of the onion and like relax into who we really

are and and and then not just relax into it but like dare to express that really

loudly not that we have to you know megaphone it to people who aren't interested but just you know show up

that way un apolog because I think a lot of us especially as women we like you know we're afraid to take up space and we kind of shrink down and we're like no

I'm me over here but also I'm GNA not bother I'm such a I such was such a people pleaser always working on that

and it you know so it's so easy to go back into those Tendencies of being like I'm just gonna I'm Gonna Fly my fre flag

but like really quietly here in the corner where I'm not going to make anyone uncomfortable um but just being

able to relax and stand tall and who you are own your [ __ ] and live your life the

way you're going to live it make the choices you're going to make it and and slowly release all of those fears around

what are people going to think and just be like they are allowed to think what they want that's okay but as long as I'm in Integrity with my own self and

identity and choices and behavior and actions then it's okay then they can think what they want yeah yeah that's

beautiful I love that that makes me think of um there's a really amazing book I read called a hidden

wholeness and it's written by this Quaker man man who ran uh like circles

uh like trust circles for people and um and and he talks about that like that

living a divided life um that that isn't authentic and that the wholeness that is within and

when you can when you Embrace everything that is like real and true for you is

that like that sense of inner peace yeah I love that yeah oh it's so good and I

think when we show up that way not only it feels amazing because we let go of so much of the inner kind of tension and

like the cognitive dissonance of like who I really am but then here at this version that's s like socially

acceptable and who most people will approve of whenever and it's like that's that tension internally has such a huge

impact on how we show up our presence our magnetism our like that how much we connect with people the depth and the

intimacy and the vulnerability we can have with another person so it's like the internal State and the external

impact when we can be in whole place yeah yeah it's beautiful I love that um

how can people find you they can um go to my website which

is sing.com that's SRE with an a not an O um or you can just Google my name and

the paing has two s's because I am the only one of me in the world I check often and so far no one else has shown

up with my name um so I'm easy to find s Sounder pausing on all the social medias um in all the places awesome oh and I

have a podcast as well it's called oh high self oh yes I've seen some clips from

it amazing amazing I'll put I'll put that stuff in the show notes um I have

one more question for you and this is um not on the main podcast but goes to our

uh patreon supporters and it's called just the tip and it's what is your best or favorite sex tip oh my

gosh

[Laughter] amazing thank you so much and thank you

for you know I just discovered your work recently but I'm always so grateful to see people like you doing this kind of

work because it you know uh these conversations are not typical and I would love for more people to be having

them and just for more people to should they be interested in things that are maybe non-traditional or

non-conventional to like H have permission to explore them and see what resonates for them because we each get

to do it our own way we really do yes absolutely 100% even if other people think it's weird which usually they're

just like man I wish I could do that too but what would people think what

would people think yes let them Wonder let them

Wonder amazing thank you so much thank you it was such a pleasure to be here

and that's it for today's episode with the amazing Sandra posing if you enjoyed

our conversation and you want to hear Sandra's just the tip you're in luck that exclusive bonus content is waiting

for you over on our patreon page it's packed with our guests favorite or best

sex tips that you don't want to miss out on so head over to patreon.com notm monogamous to get in on that and don't

forget to check out the show notes for this episode you'll find all the links to Sandra's fantastic work and more

thanks for listening [Music]

bye

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